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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 652

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for the 11th of april 2021

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richard saunders coming to you from

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sydney australia

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looks like a sunny day happy birthday

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for yesterday to my

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niece one of my nieces

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congratulations to my cousin who's

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expecting

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twins what would grandma and grandfather

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say

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and no matter where you are in the world

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i hope you're having a better day today

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a better week and i hope you got out of

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the right side of bed on this morning

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unless you're sleeping on the floor

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is it easier to get out of bed if you're

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sleeping on the floor or harder to get

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out of bed if you're sleeping on the

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floor

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like that well

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i guess you wouldn't fall out of bed

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well not very far anyway

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thinking of you people sleeping on the

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floor coming up on this week's show once

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you get

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out of bed off the floor we're going to

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be looking at ufos

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that old favorite and i think there's

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one out the window at the moment

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now maynard reminded me the other day

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that it's the 55th

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anniversary of the famous west all ufo

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case here in australia where a group of

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school children in melbourne saw

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something something strange in the sky

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and this story like the proverbial

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fish has grown and grown and grown and

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grown over the years

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in fact about 10 years ago there was a

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very good uh

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episode of skeptoid with brian dunning

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talking about this

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very case which prompted me to put

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maynard in touch with brian dunning and

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steve roberts dr steve roberts the

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australian skeptic's ufo expert who

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lives in melbourne

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they got together the other day to have

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a talk about this

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event and other ufo stories from around

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the world

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including one i've never heard about

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about the aliens who make pancakes

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so coming up at the top of the show

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maynard talks to brian dunning and steve

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roberts about

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ufos and i think it does us

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good every now and then to remember the

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roots of skepticism

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which are things like ufos and

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ghosts and monsters and psychic powers

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and all that sort of stuff

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pancake eating aliens hmm

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after that it's the news from australian

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skeptics written by tim mendom

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what's caught his skeptical eye this

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week and to

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round off the show we once more go into

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the pages of trove at the trove archives

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and look for references to

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debunk debunk the word

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skeptics love and or hate included in

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some of the stories i found

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is a really good piece which i'll link

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to directly in this week's show notes

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about

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medical quackery written in the 1950s

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yes quack devices have been with us for

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a long time

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an interesting show any show with

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maynard's bound to be interesting

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs

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and feed the cats yes they take priority

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today they're

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a little bit anxious it's a bit past

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their breakfast time

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what will i feed them folks dry kibbles

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wet cat food ah how about some chicken

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giblets

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while i do that i hope you enjoy the

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here's maynard's spooky action

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well people it's a fairly major event in

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australia

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one of the biggest ufo sightings in in

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the world really happened at westall in

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west all 66. it's 55 years

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since then i believe i've done the math

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correctly and on the

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line we have two people who are just

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really going to school me

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who've we got there first of all from

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america we have

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i'm brian dunning from skeptoid.com

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that's

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right uh who i first met at the at the

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big skeptic conference there that was

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very cool there we've

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met a couple of times they're all always

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good for laughter and in australia we

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have

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steve roberts in melbourne g'day maynard

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oh yes steve now what's your specialty

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so people know what you're talking about

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oh i've been following ufos for about 50

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years

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ever since i was a kid and develop

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skepticism more or less from following

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them and

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you know and analyzing the accounts that

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we see

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uh the phenomenon's dropped off very

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much in the last 20 years or so

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uh we'll talk about that but i'm

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skeptical of

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all things and uh in the skeptics i i

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deal with the hard sciences physics

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maths

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astronomy that sort of thing um

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but yeah you you folks are kind of ever

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with us and

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when we were younger back in the 1970s

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1980s it was a big thing

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a big cultural thing well yes i'm

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going to bring up the fact that westall

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in 1966

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westall is in melbourne is that far from

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where you are or not

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um it's far from where i am now but i

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did live quite close to there

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um about 20 years ago i do know the area

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hmm and um what have you picked up about

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it locally i mean

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there's always bits and pieces of it

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coming together it was basically

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uh during a school break kids saw

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something in the sky

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other people saw things a lot of people

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claimed they saw things it's one of the

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biggest mass

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sightings apart from the aerial one in

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uh i think rwanda which

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i'm sure brian will have something to

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say about there but it's one of the

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biggest mass sightings of a ufo

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ever well if you believe the account of

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200 schoolchildren seeing it

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it would be an enormous sighting and um

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it is a characteristic of most ufo

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sightings only one person

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sees it and they're often out in the

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desert or somewhere but you know

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it's very rare to get a sighting where

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two people in different places have seen

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the same object

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and can report it what we have here is a

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school with

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you know teachers and school children

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and um

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it turns out that only a very small

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handful of people actually saw this

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object

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but um you know school gossip being what

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it is it went

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all around the school like wildfire so

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it's um

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many accounts say that you know nearly

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everybody in the school saw it

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a couple of hundred kids and all the

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staff saw it and you know there were

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police an army and air force

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turning up afterwards and um i think

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what actually happened with

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um west all um the poor headmaster tried

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to at a school and

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educate some children and they're all

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buzzing and talking about this and

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journalists have turned up and um

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they're being a nuisance interfering

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with the conduct of the school so they

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had master said to the children as

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assembly

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the next morning you know don't talk to

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the journalists

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so the children then said oh we were

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and that's why people thought oh there's

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a cover-up going on yeah we were told

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not to talk about this

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well the the the two points of

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information i got this from

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the first ones uh podcast ufo is the

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podcast with martin willis he was

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speaking to

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an australian woman about the

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anniversary of it and also there is

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actual uh tv show itself uh the

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the movie itself westall 66 a suburban

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ufo mystery i suggest you all have a

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look at that

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considering there's not a lot of actual

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hard data apart from talking to a few

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people

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it's actually quite a well put together

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documentary for what it is and what does

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brian dunning think of the whole thing

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well i think steve covered it very well

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i mean it's it's

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it's a very famous story but the the

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version of the story that's famous

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is one that has developed over a period

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of 50 years

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uh the the version of the story that

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existed

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in 1966 when this actually happened was

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far more modest it was it was a quite a

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run-of-the-mill

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ufo story it was one teacher and

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the only number we have is quote several

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we don't know how many students that is

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but a very small number of people it

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sounds like you can count them on the

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fingers of one hand

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reported seeing a one object in the sky

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that

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drifted off some apparently 400 yards or

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so distance

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drifted behind some trees and then a few

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minutes later they saw

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a very different phenomenon described as

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this

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language that's usually given is playing

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a game of cat and mouse

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with up to five light aircraft

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which is kind of an odd concept but

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that's

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then

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years

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before you get the version of the story

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that's on wikipedia that's on the tv

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shows that's on all the web articles and

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podcasts

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today which is orders of magnitude

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larger

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200 students saw this giant thing

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come and land behind the trees and one

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girl went up and touched it and

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and and then government men showed up

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and the army showed up

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it's it's two unrelated stories so

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you know it's like uh which which story

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are you asking about the one that was

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actually reported

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or the one that's essentially the the

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fabrication of

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decades and decades of entertainment

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programs well what i thought was

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interesting brian was

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it in martin willis show podcast ufo

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where he was talking to

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this uh the person from uh we're still

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who was uh there's an anniversary coming

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up i think there's a tv show being made

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about it

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and uh both he and the the person were

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saying oh

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it was great to when you do these old

284
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ufo things more information comes to

285
00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:17,760
light and i'm just wondering if that is

286
00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:19,440
people remembering things that didn't

287
00:10:24,630 --> 00:10:21,920
happen usually is that what you've found

288
00:10:26,389 --> 00:10:24,640
uh it back that could be anything yes i

289
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:26,399
mean it can be that

290
00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:29,200
uh but essentially every ufo story that

291
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,120
enters the public consciousness

292
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:32,959
grows and grows and grows the longer

293
00:10:39,190 --> 00:10:35,839
it's out there and more and more people

294
00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:39,200
um quote-unquote step forward to

295
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,800
say that they were involved in it as

296
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:42,399
well and

297
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:45,440
and this involves the full range of of

298
00:10:48,949 --> 00:10:46,000
human

299
00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:48,959
psychology some of these are probably

300
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,200
honest witnesses who

301
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,519
honestly believe that now they remember

302
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,440
this too having heard so much about it

303
00:10:59,430 --> 00:10:57,440
over such a long period of time

304
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:59,440
from people that they knew oh yeah i

305
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:01,040
guess i do remember something like that

306
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:02,800
happened well i better call the tv show

307
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:03,440
and tell them

308
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:06,560
that i saw it too and that can be done

309
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,320
completely honestly with a completely

310
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:10,240
honest recollection of

311
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:12,000
of some memory that may or may not have

312
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:13,760
happened i just run the full spectrum

313
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:15,279
all the way to people are saying hey

314
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:16,640
everyone at my old school is getting

315
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:18,000
famous and getting paid to be on these

316
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:20,079
tv shows i want to get in on that action

317
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:21,120
too

318
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:23,200
so you got to there's a spectrum of

319
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:24,560
people of reasons people might want to

320
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,800
come forward years later

321
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,480
well if you look at western 66-day

322
00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:30,720
suburban ufo mystery you'll see in that

323
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:32,320
uh some uh hypnotic

324
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,760
regression going on where there's a

325
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,600
possibility for things being um

326
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,120
brought up that might not have happened

327
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,200
originally there but one of the

328
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:41,120
things that was mentioned by the

329
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:42,800
american host was he asked

330
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,800
what is uh what are australians

331
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,040
attitudes to ufo and our people who are

332
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,760
considering into ufos kooks or not what

333
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:51,040
do you think steve

334
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:52,880
i i think we i think we're pretty open

335
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,399
about it yeah we are

336
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,399
um but this this one is significant

337
00:12:01,030 --> 00:11:58,800
because it's one of our ufo sightings

338
00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:01,040
it's with my australian hat on

339
00:12:04,470 --> 00:12:02,480
um at the time this happened i was

340
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:04,480
living in britain and in britain we had

341
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:05,360
this

342
00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:07,120
feeling that you know all the best ufo

343
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:09,040
sightings are happening in the usa

344
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,079
and um most of the abductees are not 80

345
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:14,480
to american and can't we have our own

346
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,839
ufo sighting here

347
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:17,839
when somebody did see a ufo in britain

348
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,360
with a spectacular story and a

349
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:21,279
photograph and so on it was big news

350
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,160
because it was

351
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:25,120
our ufo sighting and i'm sure australia

352
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:26,560
uh down here they would have felt they

353
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,920
were missing out and

354
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:29,600
until they had their own ufo sighting

355
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:30,959
we've only really

356
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,040
ever had two we had this one another one

357
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,079
in 1993 which is also a very

358
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:38,720
dubious origin but those are the two ufo

359
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,000
sightings that

360
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,240
would come to mind if you if the topic

361
00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:45,040
popped up in australian conversation

362
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,279
um i mean supposing you were a kid at

363
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,959
the school not one of the kids who saw

364
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,880
the ufo but just a child who attended

365
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,000
the school

366
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:54,240
and then you know your parents and your

367
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,079
uncle fred would ask you know

368
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,320
did you see the ufo and you say no but

369
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,639
jones from year seven saw it

370
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:02,880
um and you know you'll do the best you

371
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:05,200
can to be part of the sighting and uh

372
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,720
frankly west halls are an extremely

373
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,959
boring area it's heavily industrial

374
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:10,639
there's factories and

375
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,240
stuff driving around not many people

376
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:14,399
live there and um

377
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,079
not much of interest really happens in

378
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:17,920
western so this would be the thing

379
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,720
if you said west in conversation even

380
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:22,639
now i think this story would

381
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:25,839
come to mind in the australian culture

382
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:29,040
well i think there's two kinds of sort

383
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:29,440
of

384
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:36,959
number one is ufo actually what the yell

385
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,519
letters stand for unidentified object

386
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,600
where uh sometimes you'll turn on the

387
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:42,959
news at night and you'll see that there

388
00:13:46,629 --> 00:13:44,720
was some great big fireball that flew

389
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:46,639
over the city and everyone saw it

390
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:49,600
maybe it was a meteor maybe it was a

391
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,480
rocket

392
00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:52,560
stage re-entering something something

393
00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:54,160
interesting like that

394
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:56,000
in my experience there's never really

395
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,240
been any kind of a stigma

396
00:14:01,509 --> 00:14:00,399
over talking about that i mean that's

397
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,519
something that you could

398
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,680
bring up freely in your office the next

399
00:14:07,910 --> 00:14:04,959
day

400
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:07,920
the other kind is more of what we're

401
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,160
really talking about which is

402
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,880
uh this belief that aliens are actively

403
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,560
visiting the earth and the government

404
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,040
knows about it and is covering it up

405
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:20,320
that is something that has been fringe

406
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:24,399
and marginalized and closeted for

407
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:27,199
most of history but really sort of in

408
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,000
these past

409
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,800
over the past decade with the worldwide

410
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:32,880
rise in populism

411
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,440
it's become more mainstream to be open

412
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:37,680
about conspiracy theories

413
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,399
and beliefs that the government is

414
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,120
actively trying to subvert the citizens

415
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,519
um that's become more mainstream and so

416
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:47,199
whereas you wouldn't have heard someone

417
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:48,560
bringing that up

418
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:51,839
uh probably even uh five six years ago

419
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:54,240
um you would very be very likely to hear

420
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,880
someone just

421
00:14:58,230 --> 00:14:56,959
just introduce that into conversation

422
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:58,240
out of the blue

423
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:01,279
um so there's there's been a shift look

424
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:02,800
one of the things i find interesting

425
00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:05,279
that's been um that normally goes along

426
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,160
with the

427
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,720
ufo or uap phenomenon is a bit of high

428
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:10,480
strangeness goes on there's always a bit

429
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:10,959
of

430
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:13,600
strange odd things either going around

431
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,040
or being reported by people

432
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:16,880
at the same time was there anything

433
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,519
around west 66 that was odd

434
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:21,360
steve at the time did they see odd

435
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:22,720
things that were not related to this

436
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,360
phenomenon

437
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,360
no there's no i don't know of any other

438
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:28,240
stories of similar things at the same

439
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,800
similar time or place it was a event

440
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,440
that stood by itself and um the

441
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,279
belief of the belief being held in the

442
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:37,120
60s was just a sort of general belief

443
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,800
that there might be some

444
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,800
secret projects going on everybody knows

445
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,800
the military does have secret projects

446
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:44,000
and um

447
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:45,360
people would flatter themselves by

448
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,199
thinking that moravian airport which is

449
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,440
four miles away from the school

450
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:51,680
might be a place where secret military

451
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,399
flying machines are being tested but um

452
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:56,560
it's a very very mundane place it's

453
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:58,880
extremely like there'd be anything

454
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,920
of a military interest in the airport

455
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,360
because yeah because brian knew as the

456
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,279
mr stiff shirt skeptic you went through

457
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,959
the original papers and everything of

458
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:09,040
the time and what did you find mr stiff

459
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,399
shirt skeptic

460
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:12,000
yeah i mean essentially what i said at

461
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:13,600
the top of the show which is that

462
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:15,680
the initial reports were fairly limited

463
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,959
in their scope

464
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,880
and they didn't include anything like

465
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:20,399
girls fainting and having to be taken

466
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,320
away these are all things that were

467
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,320
added in much later versions of the

468
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,399
story

469
00:16:29,829 --> 00:16:28,320
obviously if something like that had

470
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,839
happened on the day that would have been

471
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,600
the most dramatic thing of the day and

472
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,959
it absolutely would have been in the

473
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,920
newspaper

474
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:35,120
so that's the kind of thing that i look

475
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,560
and say well i think we can be

476
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,920
relatively certain

477
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:39,759
that that part of the story did not yet

478
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:42,480
exist or would have been reported

479
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:45,440
so i i think it was it was it was just a

480
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:46,480
something real happened

481
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,320
a few people did see something that they

482
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:50,240
didn't understand

483
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:53,040
and that in itself is fascinating and

484
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:54,240
interesting and that's enough of a

485
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:55,040
mystery

486
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,880
for us to research where it becomes

487
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,880
difficult is when the media tries to

488
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:00,000
amplify it

489
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,440
and turn it into something that they

490
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:03,040
find is going to be much more

491
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:04,319
sensational and make

492
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,199
much bigger headlines and uh it makes it

493
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,880
so much harder for those of us who

494
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:10,480
actually want to find out what really

495
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,400
did happen well of course you're going

496
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:14,319
to report the story the most sensational

497
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:14,959
way pog

498
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,520
possibly and i do see on your skeptoid

499
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,600
page mr dunning you have a drawing at

500
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:20,720
the top with a

501
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:23,679
proper flying saucer and birds fleeing

502
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,990
yeah this is and this is typical of a

503
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:31,280
lot of i've actually

504
00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:32,640
reported on a number of you uh

505
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:34,640
historical ufo stories

506
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,080
uh over this past year um i've i've got

507
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:39,679
i've got a good one for you in a moment

508
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,600
brian i'm gonna have you i'm gonna give

509
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:43,039
you a big glass of shut up juice in a

510
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:44,640
moment but go ahead i've i've got one

511
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:45,520
for you

512
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:48,080
okay great and a lot of these include

513
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,080
drawings made by the children

514
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:52,080
and it turns out that these drawings

515
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,360
were made

516
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:55,520
uh by the adult version of the children

517
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,600
35 years later

518
00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:00,000
after having been heard been told this

519
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,200
ufo story

520
00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:03,360
over and over and over countless times

521
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,799
over the decades

522
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:07,120
well also for the westerl 66 a suburban

523
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,160
ufo mystery

524
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,880
show they they had to that the drawings

525
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:12,080
i made for that were black and white

526
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,960
drawings uh

527
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,880
like skilled children had done as well

528
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,320
in that style and i think

529
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,919
considering what they had and they

530
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:19,520
didn't have any footage to show no

531
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,720
photos to show they did

532
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,840
they did quite a good job with the

533
00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:24,080
documentary um but there was just

534
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:26,000
there's just no solid evidence

535
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,679
unfortunately to hook the whole thing on

536
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:28,880
but

537
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:31,360
i want to bring you wisconsin brian

538
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:32,880
brian dunning wisconsin

539
00:18:38,789 --> 00:18:36,320
eagle creek joe simmerton the

540
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,799
ufo pancake incident do you know

541
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:41,280
anything about this the 60s

542
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:44,320
pancake incident this is this is not

543
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:46,160
ringing a bell i may know it by a

544
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,880
different name

545
00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:49,120
because famous ufo stories kind of have

546
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:50,080
different names

547
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,840
well you look up eagle creek with

548
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:54,080
wisconsin uh which is nowhere near you

549
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:55,120
is it brian

550
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:58,160
no no quite far okay well joe

551
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:59,679
uh joe was actually sleeping in his

552
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,600
kitchen and uh a ufo

553
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:03,360
flew over his house landed in his

554
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:04,880
backyard he got

555
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,600
up and uh knocked on the door of it and

556
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:09,200
there were aliens inside making

557
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:10,960
breakfast they asked him for some water

558
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,080
which he gave them

559
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:14,080
they appeared to be making pancakes they

560
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:15,840
gave him physical pancakes

561
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,799
which were then tested and if you listen

562
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,160
to him talking about it

563
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:23,200
um he seems very puzzled he doesn't seem

564
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,160
like a hoaxer

565
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,559
he doesn't seem like a guy who's

566
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:28,320
particularly having an odd moment

567
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,559
it's just a that's a classic bit of high

568
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,400
strangeness he actually had the pancakes

569
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:34,480
and it was taken away by the air force

570
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:37,360
uh and was analyzed and it was found to

571
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:38,320
be

572
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:43,600
served pancakes and to not eat them but

573
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,200
instead save them so that they can

574
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:47,760
well he said the alien pancake they just

575
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:49,039
they didn't taste that good they're a

576
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:51,200
bit cardboardy but they needed water off

577
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,520
him

578
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:54,080
and i'm just going was this a a lure a

579
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,360
dream he had

580
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,679
but or it was because if he was having a

581
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:59,039
hoax it wasn't a particularly good one

582
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,400
because as he's talking

583
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,400
he seems very puzzled by what happened

584
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:03,840
to him and i just find that

585
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,159
a very classic bit of high strangeness

586
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:08,480
that makes no sense whatsoever

587
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,720
how could they ran short of water well

588
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:12,080
you think they have enough water on

589
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,039
board to

590
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:16,240
make coffee and so on well yeah they had

591
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:17,280
like a

592
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:19,360
a griddle going they were doing that

593
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:20,559
kind of thing i just thought it was a

594
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:22,159
very odd thing and

595
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,840
that makes me think that sometimes this

596
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:25,360
phenomenon is all about

597
00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:27,280
the person rather than something

598
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:28,880
external sometimes i'm just throwing

599
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,840
that out there

600
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:31,919
i would agree with that i mean i without

601
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:33,679
having researched the story i mean i can

602
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,000
give

603
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:36,640
you what my initial thoughts would be it

604
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,640
would tell you where i would start to

605
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:40,320
investigate and try to learn more about

606
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:41,760
what actually happened

607
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,880
my experience is that people lying or

608
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:47,200
making something up or hoaxing

609
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,159
is very rare and plays a very small part

610
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:52,720
in almost all ufo stories

611
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,080
i believe most most people who

612
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,799
identify as eyewitnesses are sincere in

613
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:00,400
their belief of their memory of what

614
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:02,000
happened

615
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:05,600
and as we know human memory

616
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,799
is a the the most fascinating subject

617
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,240
that exists on the planet

618
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,559
and the way the brain works and the way

619
00:21:16,789 --> 00:21:14,720
the brain interprets its inputs

620
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,799
and comes up with its interpretations of

621
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,799
what's actually happening around it

622
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,799
you know you get it's it is an

623
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:22,960
absolutely fascinating topic and it's a

624
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:26,320
huge topic so what would have led this

625
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:26,880
person

626
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,159
to come up with that memory of what

627
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:32,000
happened to him if he shows up with the

628
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:32,960
air force base

629
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,200
and he's got a handful of pancakes and

630
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:37,440
he hands it to someone says test these

631
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,000
please

632
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:40,400
oh and and by the way they they the

633
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,200
remains of them

634
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:43,440
are still at edwards air force base uh

635
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:44,799
martin willis has actually seen them

636
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,360
they're

637
00:21:49,029 --> 00:21:47,600
in a display case saying these were

638
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:49,039
tested and found to be

639
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,240
pancakes so yes because i can get to

640
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:54,400
edwards pretty quickly yeah you'll see

641
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:55,520
that yeah

642
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:57,120
it's somewhere near the mess hall or

643
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:58,320
something like that it's like it's

644
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,760
actually there with a with a whole bunch

645
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:01,120
of stuff that got under glass it's like

646
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:02,640
here's the ufo thing we had

647
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:05,120
but um look just off the subject for a

648
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:06,080
moment there

649
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,600
what do you think of travis walton's

650
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:09,440
experience brian and what do you think

651
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,400
steve

652
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,240
yeah this is a difficult case and i

653
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:14,080
think it is a standout

654
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:16,640
in that it is probably one in which the

655
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:18,159
entire thing

656
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:20,080
was knowingly and deliberately

657
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,480
fabricated with a for-profit

658
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,520
motive i think that's extremely rare and

659
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,520
i don't want to cast aspersions

660
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,000
on the larger ufo phenomena by

661
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:32,400
associating the travis walton story with

662
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,600
other stories

663
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,760
i think it's quite clear though from all

664
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:36,799
the years

665
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:39,039
of evidence and interviews and even the

666
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:40,720
lie detector tests and the way that they

667
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:42,000
were misreported

668
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,360
i think it's very clear that there was

669
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:45,840
very little honesty uh going on in the

670
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:47,440
stream of information from these two

671
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:48,559
brothers

672
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,039
uh and and we we do know that they had a

673
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:53,039
large financial motive with the

674
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:55,120
the cash prize from the national

675
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,320
enquirer

676
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,960
so i i i hate to even waste time talking

677
00:23:00,789 --> 00:23:00,159
about that because i don't think it

678
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:00,799
deserves

679
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:03,520
a spot in legitimate discussion the only

680
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,720
reason i mentioned is because i

681
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:06,400
i met travis walton when he was in

682
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:07,760
australia and to me

683
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,000
it seemed like someone that something

684
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:12,320
had happened to his eyes sort of

685
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:16,000
um or you know um yeah there was he just

686
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:17,679
reacted when i mentioned the whole thing

687
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,039
but i also spoke to

688
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:21,520
who's is it joe joe nichol is that the

689
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,080
skeptic

690
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:24,880
investigator i think he's one uh robert

691
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:26,400
schaefer is another one who does a lot

692
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,440
of ufo work

693
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,280
yes because because joe thinks that the

694
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:31,200
whole that he was faking the whole thing

695
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:32,720
and based on his experience as a

696
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:34,880
detective but as when i was interviewing

697
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:35,360
travis

698
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:37,600
i thought something did go on there but

699
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,400
i couldn't tell

700
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,799
what it was but something happened well

701
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:42,640
i mean remember that he has based his

702
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:45,919
entire career every waking minute

703
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,520
on this story conceived in the 1970s

704
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:52,799
and you were gonna at that point you

705
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,559
were going to be so practiced in this

706
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:56,159
narrative that you've been developing

707
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:57,360
that you are going to believe in

708
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,320
yourself

709
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,760
and you are going to take it personally

710
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,919
when someone seems to disbelieve it

711
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:03,840
so i nothing nothing about the way that

712
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,000
he would behave or present himself

713
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:08,400
uh would surprise me one of the things

714
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,919
that was great at the paranormal

715
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:11,360
conference we went to and we don't have

716
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,400
many in australia

717
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,480
they happen quite often uh in the u.s

718
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:16,000
and elsewhere but they don't happen very

719
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:16,960
often here it was

720
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:18,159
at the blue mountains i went with

721
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:20,000
richard and uh they had people put their

722
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,600
hands up anyone who's experienced a

723
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:23,520
close encounter the first time

724
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,279
first kind second kind third kind

725
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,440
fourth kind then there was the fifth

726
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,720
kind and there was like a couple of

727
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:32,640
hands up and i think the fifth kind is

728
00:24:36,710 --> 00:24:35,039
if you are impregnated by an alien is

729
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,720
that the fifth kind is that where you're

730
00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:39,200
you're you're melding dm at dna is that

731
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,159
what that is

732
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:42,880
am i correct steve or brian the fifth

733
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,039
forget the actual list but the third guy

734
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:47,760
was alien contact

735
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:51,039
there's been no fourth or fifth kinds

736
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:52,720
of yes and there were people with their

737
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:54,880
hands up and um at that point i would

738
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,520
have gone

739
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:57,360
stand up tell us your story but it was

740
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:59,760
just like a simple survey and

741
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:01,760
of course richard was being stiff shirt

742
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:03,679
skeptic thing and writing very

743
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:05,520
s words down and i was going well that's

744
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:06,799
really interesting over there which was

745
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:07,840
like

746
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,440
anyway yeah but it was good to go to

747
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:10,720
those things i just wish there was more

748
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:11,120
power

749
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,480
have you been to many paranormal

750
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:14,559
conferences at all well steve because we

751
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,679
don't have them in australia what about

752
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:17,360
you brian are you welcome or do they

753
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:18,640
show you the door and give you the wet

754
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,919
broom treatment

755
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,919
i have i have not been to one but i but

756
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:24,000
i have friends who go to them regularly

757
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,720
and i i i i like it's like this was the

758
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:28,320
year i was going to start going to all

759
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,960
of them

760
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,480
and then of course covet hit and i

761
00:25:34,789 --> 00:25:32,480
didn't go anywhere but i'm really hoping

762
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:34,799
to start going to a few yeah i've been

763
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:35,600
to a couple

764
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,840
um there's an enormous commercial

765
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,840
element people flogging books and stuff

766
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:41,520
and making money

767
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:44,720
and the ufo fans who go along

768
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,000
their leaders are very egoistic indeed

769
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,880
um but they're all there dying to hear

770
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,120
stories and so on and um

771
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,760
people who have had experiences have

772
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:57,440
shown enormous respect

773
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:00,799
and it's almost worth cooking a story up

774
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,799
uh to get that respect you know you'll

775
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:04,320
be ushered into the room and given a

776
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,520
special seat and

777
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,360
the room will go silent when you come in

778
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:09,360
out of respect for you and so on

779
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:12,559
if you're a victim of a ufo event and so

780
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:12,960
on

781
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:19,679
uh when i was living in australia and

782
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,480
the speaker there's 400 people there

783
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,240
the speaker told this tall story about

784
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,320
ufos over sydney which they all lapped

785
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,400
up the audience

786
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,000
and i was the only australian there and

787
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,840
i thought well shall i pipe up if i did

788
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:33,360
pipe up they'd all just

789
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,960
shout me down you know but this whole

790
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,520
story was a tissue of lies about

791
00:26:39,909 --> 00:26:38,720
something that's meant to have happened

792
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,919
in sydney

793
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:42,240
um which is so far away from british

794
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:43,600
imagination that anything could happen

795
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,320
there they wouldn't

796
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:46,799
be able to check on it so i think a lot

797
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,679
of these things

798
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,159
um i did go to another presentation it

799
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:52,559
was a very sorry affair from a man who

800
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:53,919
thought he'd built

801
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:55,520
a flying saucer but he hadn't actually

802
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:57,279
quite got around to actually building it

803
00:27:03,590 --> 00:26:57,520
so

804
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:03,600
anger line bolted together that morning

805
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:04,080
um

806
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,679
but he never quite finished the flying

807
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,679
saucer but he reckoned he would work if

808
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:08,720
he'd built it

809
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:11,840
there's a very very sad kind of

810
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,240
thing to attend really i know we're

811
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,679
running short time here just

812
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:17,760
what about the canada one of the uh

813
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,360
underwater one that seemed like

814
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,120
something crashed into the water and

815
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,880
went out into a bay there what about

816
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,880
that canada one come on

817
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,480
canada's roswell or whatever they call

818
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:28,880
it yeah

819
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,360
i love that that's such a skeptic thing

820
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:32,559
everybody sampled that

821
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:34,960
yeah i need i need five minutes to

822
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,880
refresh myself on that though

823
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:38,480
yeah that that's fine but yes look we're

824
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:40,320
running out of time here steve uh your

825
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,080
last words from you

826
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,159
oh well yeah it was a great social

827
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,399
phenomenon of the 50s and 60s that it

828
00:27:51,269 --> 00:27:48,399
died the death when everybody was

829
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:51,279
carrying a camera around with them

830
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:54,559
it was fun at the time well look

831
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:56,080
thanks guys great hang with chatty great

832
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,679
having it even though you are a party

833
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:59,200
pooper brian great chatting to you and

834
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:01,520
steve great having a chat to you as well

835
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:03,120
look i said that reframing the debate

836
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:04,720
it's a good book to have a look at for

837
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:08,000
that side of things um the podcast ufo

838
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,960
the source of life um the westall 66 is

839
00:28:14,830 --> 00:28:12,640
suburban ufo mystery and of course

840
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,840
skeptoid if you want to really ruin your

841
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,880
fun

842
00:28:19,909 --> 00:28:18,720
although there was someone who said you

843
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:19,919
should rename the show

844
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:24,799
well actually i agree

845
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:28,960
i saw ufo well actually

846
00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:32,320
i will explain white spleen mansplain

847
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:35,120
all of these urban legends to everyone

848
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:36,559
cool and for all those overseas

849
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,919
listeners if there's an australian band

850
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:39,440
you want to get it want to get into i

851
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:40,480
would recommend

852
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:43,600
hiatus coyote spelt with a k

853
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:46,480
hiatus coyote bit of jazz and hip-hop

854
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:47,760
all mixed together i just want to throw

855
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:48,320
that in

856
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:51,360
as well as the uh the 2020 iceland um

857
00:28:55,470 --> 00:28:54,880
eurovision entry fantastic brian dunning

858
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:55,480
from

859
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:59,039
skiptoy.com also known as well actually

860
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,960
and also uh steve thank you very much

861
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:02,399
for chatting to us in melbourne there

862
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:02,880
and uh

863
00:29:18,330 --> 00:29:04,240
go out and have a bit of a wander around

864
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:05,360
[Music]

865
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,320
now it's time for the australian

866
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,640
skeptics newsletter newsletter number

867
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:50,880
100 120

868
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:55,440
written by tim mendenham hi all it says

869
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,799
in among the news of some interesting

870
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:00,559
practices by the alt-med

871
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:03,279
brigade there are some truly inspiring

872
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:04,159
pieces

873
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,799
on how science works and the public

874
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:08,320
attitude towards it

875
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,919
read on tim and don't forget when you

876
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,919
subscribe to this newsletter all these

877
00:31:18,149 --> 00:31:15,120
stories

878
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:18,159
are accompanied by a link misty mountain

879
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:18,960
health retreat

880
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:21,840
loses charity registration retreat

881
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:23,120
associated with band

882
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:26,000
and naturopath barbara o'neill loses its

883
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:27,200
charity status

884
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:30,080
the body responsible for the revocation

885
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:31,200
won't say why

886
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:34,960
but a positive result nonetheless

887
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:36,840
push for the investigation into

888
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,159
scientology's

889
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:40,559
charity status according to an

890
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:41,600
investigation by

891
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:44,720
the age and the sydney morning herald

892
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,519
the church of scientology has shifted

893
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,440
tens of millions of dollars

894
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:52,000
into australia from offshore and is

895
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:52,799
making

896
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,399
significant tax-free profits australia

897
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:59,279
the investigation found has become quote

898
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,080
an international

899
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:02,480
haven for the religion despite a sharp

900
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:05,840
fall in its numbers of local adherence

901
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,720
end quote australia's belief in the

902
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:10,159
supernatural

903
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:13,360
based on a survey of 1 000 people

904
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:16,480
48 of australians say they believe in

905
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,399
ghosts or at least the possibility that

906
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:20,080
they may exist

907
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,960
while 69 say the same for the soul

908
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:26,480
apparently younger people are stronger

909
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:28,720
believers than the old and women

910
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:31,919
stronger believers than men

911
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:35,039
anti-vaxxers promoting fake insurance

912
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:38,640
document the anti-vac pseudoscience

913
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:42,320
promoter ellie salznone has posted a

914
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:45,279
supposed product disclosure statement

915
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,000
from

916
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,320
alliance insurance on her facebook page

917
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,320
which states that the company would not

918
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:52,320
cover negative side effects of covert

919
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:53,600
vaccines

920
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:57,039
the document is a clumsy fake but that

921
00:33:02,110 --> 00:32:57,919
doesn't stop

922
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,120
salznon and her followers from gushing

923
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:04,799
conspiratorially sal's known comments

924
00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:06,000
that quote

925
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:08,880
you literally can't make this [\h__\h] up

926
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:11,360
end quote someone obviously

927
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,039
and literally just did that

928
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:16,880
says a lot about anti-vaxxer's

929
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:18,240
gullibility

930
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,240
rush to judgment and deviousness

931
00:33:25,990 --> 00:33:24,640
anti-science movement is escalating

932
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:26,000
scientific american

933
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:29,120
puts the anti-science movement on a par

934
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:31,919
with terrorism and nuclear proliferation

935
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,320
as a threat to global security

936
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:36,480
quote rejection of mainstream science

937
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,159
and medicine has become a key

938
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:41,039
feature of the political right in the us

939
00:33:45,029 --> 00:33:41,360
and

940
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,039
it says

941
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:47,919
quote anti-science has emerged as a

942
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:48,720
dominant

943
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,240
and highly lethal force and one that

944
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:54,240
threatens global security

945
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,360
as much as do terrorism and nuclear

946
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,320
proliferation we must mount a

947
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,240
counter-offensive and build new

948
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:04,720
infrastructure to combat anti-science

949
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,760
just as we have for those other

950
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:10,320
more widely recognized and established

951
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:10,960
threats

952
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,320
end quote forceful stuff six tips to

953
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,879
help you detect fake science news

954
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,639
if the science sounds too good to be

955
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:20,720
true or too wacky to be real

956
00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:22,720
or very conveniently supports a

957
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:24,240
contentious cause

958
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:25,599
then you might want to check its

959
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,960
veracity a handy list to keep at hand

960
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:31,919
doctors and that's in little quotes

961
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:35,040
doctors dispute covert 19 information

962
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,919
a curious piece out of a californian

963
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:39,440
student newspaper

964
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:43,040
ostensibly a news report on a couple of

965
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,960
chiropractors demonstrating their deep

966
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,280
medical qualifications and knowledge on

967
00:34:51,030 --> 00:34:50,079
vaccination and immunology it quickly

968
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:51,040
ends up being a

969
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,520
refutation of them point by point more

970
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:55,679
power to student journalists

971
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:58,160
we also have a list of upcoming events

972
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:59,440
from around australia

973
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:01,599
including queensland skeptics canberra

974
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,440
skeptics

975
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:06,240
adelaide critical thinkers in the pub

976
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:06,560
vic

977
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:09,359
skeptics cafe gold coast skeptics perth

978
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:12,240
skeptic sydney skeptics again

979
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,920
well we are busy here in sydney and more

980
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:16,960
and

981
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:19,200
that was just some of the items listed

982
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,920
in the australian skeptics newsletter

983
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:23,920
you can sign up and have that newsletter

984
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:25,760
delivered to your inbox about every

985
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:26,560
other week

986
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:30,000
just go to dot www.skeptics.com

987
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,240
dot a u

988
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,560
hey fellow skeptics ben radford here

989
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,839
with celestia ward

990
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:49,359
your friendly host of squaring the

991
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:51,760
strange a podcast that looks at topics

992
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:54,480
ranging from legends panics and cryptids

993
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,800
to media myths psychology and folklore

994
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:58,560
breaking things down and picking things

995
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,119
apart

996
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,200
as we skeptics do we bring a few

997
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,040
different perspectives on things

998
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,880
celestia for example is a witty

999
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,240
cartoonist and ben

1000
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,760
is a brilliant writer and long time

1001
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:09,760
skeptical investigator we don't always

1002
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,320
agree

1003
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,480
but we have fun trying and we learn new

1004
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:15,040
things join us for new topics every week

1005
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,599
or two

1006
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,760
or browse our backlog of evergreen

1007
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,440
episodes available on

1008
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:21,920
itunes and all your podcast feeding

1009
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:22,640
troughs

1010
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:25,280
squaring the strange take care strangers

1011
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:39,880
[Music]

1012
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,190
now it's time to wander once more into

1013
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:48,480
the pages at trove at trove.nla.gov.a

1014
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:50,720
you the online resource of

1015
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:53,760
magazines periodicals

1016
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,000
journals all digitized and searchable

1017
00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:00,320
australian news and information going

1018
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:02,000
back decades

1019
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:04,250
indeed centuries

1020
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:07,040
[Music]

1021
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,720
and this time i thought we'd look up a

1022
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:10,800
term that

1023
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:13,599
comes and goes in favor with skeptics

1024
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:15,280
some people hate it some people think

1025
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:15,760
it's

1026
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:22,800
appropriate the term is debunk

1027
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,280
now as james randy would often tell us

1028
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:26,880
that uh

1029
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:29,680
skeptics are not debunkers we don't set

1030
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:30,320
out to

1031
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:34,160
debunk something we investigate with an

1032
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,040
open mind

1033
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:37,280
however i think it's fair to say that

1034
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:39,119
once something has been investigated and

1035
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:39,760
shown to be

1036
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:43,440
false conclusively then the word

1037
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:46,640
debunk might be appropriate certainly in

1038
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:47,599
the popular

1039
00:37:54,230 --> 00:37:51,280
imagination the word debunk

1040
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:54,240
is whether we like it or not applied to

1041
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:55,280
skeptics

1042
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:59,200
so we pour through the archives it trove

1043
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:02,160
and we come to the sunday times from

1044
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:04,000
perth western australia

1045
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:06,000
an article published on the 10th of

1046
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:08,640
october 1948

1047
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:11,839
scientists debunk popular beliefs

1048
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:14,240
whenever scientists look into popular

1049
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:14,960
sayings

1050
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:17,680
they come up with some amazing results

1051
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:18,720
for instance

1052
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:21,119
experts who have measured hair under a

1053
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,240
microscope

1054
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:24,960
have found that the average growth day

1055
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:26,160
by day between

1056
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:29,680
shaves is the same as the daily growth

1057
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,119
when people don't shave and those who

1058
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,520
declare that lightning never strikes

1059
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,359
twice in the same place

1060
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:39,760
will be interested to know that the new

1061
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,480
york's

1062
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,960
giant empire state building is often

1063
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:45,359
struck during severe storms

1064
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:49,280
and there's the idea that powdered glass

1065
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:51,440
is a dangerous poison

1066
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:54,560
actually it is not as bad as the writers

1067
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,960
of

1068
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:57,040
thrillers would have us believe the

1069
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:59,520
powdered glass delusion goes back to the

1070
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:00,960
times when arsenic

1071
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,839
a deadly poison was manufactured in the

1072
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,800
form

1073
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:07,359
that looked rather like glass idea that

1074
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:08,640
a person who fell

1075
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:11,359
from a very high building or from a

1076
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:11,839
plane

1077
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,040
would be dead before he hit the ground

1078
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:18,000
is incorrect during the war many flyers

1079
00:39:21,990 --> 00:39:19,040
fell a mile

1080
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:22,000
or more before their parachutes opened

1081
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:22,400
they

1082
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:25,760
remained perfectly conscious and landed

1083
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:28,880
unharmed but those rheumatic pains do

1084
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,800
forecast the damp spell

1085
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:33,359
for changes in atmospheric pressure have

1086
00:39:37,750 --> 00:39:34,560
a real effect

1087
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:37,760
on rheumatic joints all those scientists

1088
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,280
debunking popular beliefs and strangely

1089
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,520
enough on the very same page as a giant

1090
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:45,680
ad for

1091
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:49,839
dr sheldon's gin pills for the kidneys

1092
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:52,880
ouch it says relieve dragging pain of

1093
00:39:58,420 --> 00:39:55,200
backache rheumatism joint pains

1094
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,430
rid your system of excess uric acid

1095
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,160
[Music]

1096
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:02,480
and our next port of call is the

1097
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:03,920
adelaide advertiser

1098
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:08,800
published on the 10th of july 1947.

1099
00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:12,000
us scientists debunk flying sources

1100
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,400
aap and our special representative

1101
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,800
the text is a little uh a little blurred

1102
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:20,400
over the years

1103
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:23,680
new york july the 9th the theory of

1104
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,720
professor f s cotton professor of

1105
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:27,599
physiology

1106
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,640
at the university of sydney that flying

1107
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:32,960
sources were an optical illusion

1108
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,880
is supported by prominent american

1109
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,480
scientists

1110
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:39,280
dr henry garrett columbia university

1111
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,079
said

1112
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:42,400
under strong enough suggestion you can

1113
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:43,760
cause a man to see

1114
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:46,640
anything you want him to see dr jesse

1115
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:47,599
sproules

1116
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:49,839
professor of psychology at the

1117
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:51,680
university of maryland agrees

1118
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:54,319
with professor garrett that there is

1119
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,280
absolutely no limit to the delusions a

1120
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,280
mind can harbor

1121
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:01,520
some scientists believe that a number of

1122
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:03,119
people reporting the

1123
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:07,040
discs are simply exhibitionists who want

1124
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,000
to attract attention to themselves dr

1125
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,160
james hamilton of san francisco

1126
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:14,640
agrees that the discs are probably a

1127
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,720
psychological phenomenon and points out

1128
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:18,160
that the scientists

1129
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:21,040
even have a name for it musk of

1130
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:22,000
voluntans

1131
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:25,359
which translated means flying flies

1132
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:27,680
medical officers attached to the united

1133
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:29,359
states forces in germany

1134
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:32,720
are equally skeptical lieutenant colonel

1135
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:35,599
hartwin schultz says that those seeing

1136
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:36,400
the discs

1137
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:39,599
are affected by an entropic phenomenon

1138
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,839
which causes a person to see disc-like

1139
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:43,520
objects moving swiftly

1140
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:46,000
out of the field of vision it is

1141
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:47,599
experienced he says

1142
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,440
when one looks fixedly at a bright light

1143
00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:54,079
the columnist walter winshaw cites

1144
00:41:58,750 --> 00:41:55,680
examples of similar

1145
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:58,760
phenomena being observed as long ago as

1146
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,079
1893

1147
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:03,119
by the commander of hms caroline

1148
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:05,760
when steaming through the china sea

1149
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:07,839
tending to favor this suggestion that

1150
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:09,119
the flying discs

1151
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:12,800
are a new secret weapon david diaz

1152
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:16,240
gives them a possible australasian

1153
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:17,359
origin

1154
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:20,319
d it says not until a few weeks ago when

1155
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:22,720
britain knighted a new zealand professor

1156
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:25,359
did we learn of a secret anglo-american

1157
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:26,240
research

1158
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,800
during world war ii all we learned then

1159
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:30,000
was it represented

1160
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:33,119
a weapon said to be comparable with an

1161
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:34,400
atomic bomb

1162
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:37,040
in death dealing efficiency we know that

1163
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,280
this professor previously worked in the

1164
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:41,359
field of electro radiation

1165
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:43,920
and it is easy although perhaps

1166
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:44,480
incorrect

1167
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,640
to jump to the conclusion that he has

1168
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,680
protected some sort of electric array

1169
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:51,839
diets draws support from known

1170
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:54,240
characteristics of radar rays

1171
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:57,680
he continues it is not over difficult to

1172
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,119
imagine that some

1173
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:02,720
way may have been found for focusing and

1174
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,760
reconstituting such electronic radiation

1175
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:07,680
such concentrated enemies striking a

1176
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,079
cloud might cause an electric

1177
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:12,319
reaction which would result in some

1178
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:13,760
bright object

1179
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:16,800
the belief that the first flying saucer

1180
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:19,280
had been found on a ranch near roswell

1181
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:20,400
new mexico

1182
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,760
was dispelled when a fort worth army

1183
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,160
airfield officer identified the object

1184
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,440
as a ray wind target used to

1185
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,599
determine the direction and velocity of

1186
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:32,960
high winds

1187
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:34,800
oh that's an interesting one a report

1188
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:36,560
about roswell

1189
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:39,839
and that comes from 1947.

1190
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,040
and here's one from the herald

1191
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:45,599
published in melbourne on the 7th of

1192
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,240
january 1952.

1193
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:51,440
a very short article 8 000

1194
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,640
scientists debunk predict

1195
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:58,079
herald special service new york sunday

1196
00:44:01,510 --> 00:44:00,000
scientist at the annual meeting of the

1197
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,520
american association for the

1198
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:03,359
advancements of science

1199
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:05,839
debunked ideas that women are the weaker

1200
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:06,560
sex

1201
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:09,839
or red heads are hot tempered noted

1202
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,640
that a nation's birth rate decreases as

1203
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:14,000
its consumption of

1204
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:17,920
pig iron increased and

1205
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:21,040
predicted that within 10 to 20 years

1206
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:23,920
synthetics would replace half the wool

1207
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:24,240
now

1208
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:27,760
used and that new drugs might enable the

1209
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,440
deliberate molding of people physically

1210
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:34,079
and mentally now here's an interesting

1211
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:34,880
one

1212
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:38,079
oh the herald 1947 from monday the 3rd

1213
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:38,960
of november

1214
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:42,079
the melbourne herald and something i

1215
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:44,800
might have mentioned on the show before

1216
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,880
in fact i probably have the story of the

1217
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:48,079
penningtons

1218
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,240
now the pittingtons were a uh husband

1219
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:51,760
and wife uh

1220
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:54,800
performing duo who had a mentalist act

1221
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:58,480
and made it huge huge in england at the

1222
00:45:02,309 --> 00:44:59,760
time

1223
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:02,319
although originally from australia and

1224
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,960
they would

1225
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,880
regularly draw millions of people into

1226
00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,880
the radio their radio program

1227
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,119
where they would do mentalism some years

1228
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,520
ago maybe 10 years ago or so

1229
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,160
i had a conversation with the president

1230
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:15,839
of the australian psychics

1231
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,880
association the late simon turnbull

1232
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,720
who was of the opinion that the

1233
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:22,079
pittingtons did have

1234
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,119
real psychic power

1235
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:28,480
i tried to explain anyway this one comes

1236
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:29,280
from

1237
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:31,119
a column called today's information

1238
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:32,560
guide radiolog

1239
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:35,680
the herald radio writer pettingtons try

1240
00:45:42,069 --> 00:45:36,160
to

1241
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:42,079
wires under the studio carpets and tiny

1242
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:43,760
microphones in their ears to get

1243
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:47,119
miscellaneous results from their 3kz

1244
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:49,760
mental telepathy show according to some

1245
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:51,280
skeptical critics

1246
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:54,640
the pittingtons will use their half hour

1247
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,000
from 7 30 tonight to debunk these

1248
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:01,040
and other explanations which some

1249
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:02,880
listeners have advanced to prove

1250
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:05,920
the show is phony and it sort of reminds

1251
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:06,240
me

1252
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:09,280
of people possibly

1253
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,839
scientists possibly reporters possibly

1254
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:13,200
just made up

1255
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:16,560
as a red herring uh when yuri gellar was

1256
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,319
bending spoons saying oh

1257
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,720
he probably uses lasers coming from his

1258
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:23,119
belt buckle or acid on his fingers

1259
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,359
sometimes the trick is far simpler than

1260
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:27,280
that and finally here's

1261
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:30,720
one from the world's news published in

1262
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:31,280
sydney

1263
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:35,040
on the 7th of february 1953

1264
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,400
quack health machines that kill by peter

1265
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:40,079
denton from new york

1266
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,200
reputable medical men debunk them

1267
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:46,480
but gullible customers still buy

1268
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,440
cures quick medical men in america no

1269
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:51,359
longer sell bottles of colored water

1270
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:53,200
guaranteed to cure everything

1271
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:56,160
instead they sell cure all gadgets the

1272
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,359
medical profession

1273
00:47:01,990 --> 00:47:00,400
is alarmed at the number of people being

1274
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:02,000
killed by these machines

1275
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:04,640
either because they are quite useless or

1276
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:05,680
dangerous

1277
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,800
in melbourne in 1948 a man was jailed

1278
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:09,680
because he

1279
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:12,720
was hawking small metal plates

1280
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:15,920
supposed to cure rheumatism the plates

1281
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,640
made for about six shillings each and

1282
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:20,400
sold for one pound

1283
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:23,200
were worn in the sufferers shoes they

1284
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:24,000
were said to

1285
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:26,960
convert the human body into a walking

1286
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:27,920
electric

1287
00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:31,040
battery and i must pause here folks to

1288
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:33,119
say there's nothing new under the sun

1289
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:36,400
my goodness this is like reading

1290
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:37,920
something that i've been investigating

1291
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:40,160
over the past decade not

1292
00:47:46,710 --> 00:47:44,160
not from the 1950s this could almost be

1293
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,720
written for the power balance of some

1294
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,920
years ago or

1295
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:49,839
various quack machines we still see

1296
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:52,160
today made for very little sold for a

1297
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:53,440
lot

1298
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:56,640
and don't do any damn good at all

1299
00:48:01,270 --> 00:48:00,000
apart from placebo we read on but this

1300
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:01,280
man was an amateur

1301
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:03,520
compared to some american quacks the

1302
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:05,520
american food and drug administration

1303
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:05,839
has

1304
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:08,480
uncovered some startling cases one

1305
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,359
syndicate

1306
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,920
brought up thousands of tons of war

1307
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:13,599
surplus equipment

1308
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,319
dials batteries transformers tubes

1309
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:17,599
lenses

1310
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:19,839
instrument panels switches buzzers and

1311
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:20,960
coils

1312
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:22,640
they converted this material into

1313
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,160
impressive looking health

1314
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:26,960
boxes because legitimate doctors are

1315
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:27,760
using

1316
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:31,040
electric devices a great deal of this

1317
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,000
sort of imposing paraphernalia gives the

1318
00:48:39,670 --> 00:48:36,800
quacks an advantage one gadget

1319
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:39,680
investigated by the food and drug bureau

1320
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:43,200
was the diabetes machine known to have

1321
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:46,800
killed at least 100 people because they

1322
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,920
forsook their orthodox treatment for the

1323
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:51,359
quack instrument

1324
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:55,040
it cost about 300 pounds and contained a

1325
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:55,520
dry

1326
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:58,880
battery a small bulb and a colored glass

1327
00:49:02,230 --> 00:48:59,839
panel

1328
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,240
one of the most spectacular frauds was

1329
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:04,160
the spectrochrome

1330
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:06,559
an invention of a supposed hindu calling

1331
00:49:10,950 --> 00:49:07,520
himself

1332
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:10,960
dinsha framji godaily who wrote letters

1333
00:49:14,829 --> 00:49:12,160
purporting to denote

1334
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,839
12 degrees after his name the

1335
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:16,640
spectrochrome was a

1336
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:19,359
garish lighter dupe box affair supposed

1337
00:49:22,950 --> 00:49:21,359
to cure every ailment from major

1338
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:22,960
diseases to blisters

1339
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:26,000
by correcting the body's chromatic

1340
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:29,119
scale and i'll pause once again to say

1341
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:31,280
yes nothing new under the sun this is

1342
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:33,839
amazing i'm i find this personally

1343
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:36,559
quite fascinating this is the same sort

1344
00:49:40,950 --> 00:49:38,559
of bunk which is going on today there we

1345
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:40,960
are i'm using the word bunk

1346
00:49:45,750 --> 00:49:43,599
hmm we read on the patient first

1347
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:45,760
discovered the most propatorious day

1348
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:48,960
and hour for treatment with the favor

1349
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:49,520
scope

1350
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:52,240
supplied free with the machine then he

1351
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:52,960
would lie

1352
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:56,480
with his head to the north while yellow

1353
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:59,520
magenta red or green light played on the

1354
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:00,880
affected part of his

1355
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:04,640
body the spectrochrome could not be

1356
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:08,240
bought but for a fee of 50 pounds

1357
00:50:12,069 --> 00:50:11,119
a patient could join an institute and

1358
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:12,079
have his

1359
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,520
color imbalance corrected

1360
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,440
when authority sees a number of the

1361
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:19,440
gadgets they were found to contain

1362
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:20,400
nothing more

1363
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,280
than an ordinary light bulb a lens and

1364
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:25,440
half a dozen colored plates made from

1365
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:29,040
ordinary window glass gedali was

1366
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:32,640
fined four thousand pounds which he paid

1367
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:35,200
in cash

1368
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:38,640
before leaving court

1369
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,280
i'm sure he did pay in cash these

1370
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,240
machines can really rake in the money

1371
00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:46,000
that wasn't in the original i just added

1372
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:47,839
that

1373
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:50,240
let's read on another operator sold a

1374
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:52,720
50-pound radioactive pad

1375
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:55,920
ideal for female complaints

1376
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,720
it is estimated that he sold 20 000 of

1377
00:51:02,230 --> 00:50:59,839
these things

1378
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:02,240
investigations showed that the pad was

1379
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:04,319
simply a piece of steel

1380
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:07,359
wrapped in felt and covered on one side

1381
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:10,400
with micra an expensive item the

1382
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:13,680
radio gland rejuvenator costing

1383
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:16,400
500 pounds the salesman explained to the

1384
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,079
gullible customers

1385
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:20,400
that the profits on this was practically

1386
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,000
nothing as the makers were

1387
00:51:25,510 --> 00:51:24,400
only out to do good to suffering

1388
00:51:28,390 --> 00:51:25,520
humanity

1389
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,400
it was expensive yes but so were the

1390
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,240
materials used

1391
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:32,240
one end of the gadget was attached to an

1392
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:33,520
ordinary radio

1393
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,559
the other was passed over the lands

1394
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,119
all it did investigators found was to

1395
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:40,960
create static on the radio

1396
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:44,640
it cost about two pounds ten to make

1397
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:47,680
a firm supposedly reputable

1398
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:52,240
advertised vapor baths for 900 pounds

1399
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:55,520
which included cost of installation the

1400
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:56,559
bath

1401
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:00,319
relieved diabetes lung abscesses

1402
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:03,040
blood poisoning and other diseases its

1403
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:05,119
active ingredient was nathalien or in

1404
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:06,079
other words

1405
00:52:12,390 --> 00:52:09,760
mothballs reputable scientists reporting

1406
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:12,400
on their high priced bath said

1407
00:52:17,349 --> 00:52:14,800
it is not entirely a fraud it does give

1408
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:17,359
the user a thorough moth proofing

1409
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,760
these expensive cures did not sell in

1410
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:20,960
great numbers

1411
00:52:25,030 --> 00:52:23,520
they do not need to in order to make

1412
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,040
their owners a fortune

1413
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:27,119
but one firm went free killing with a

1414
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:28,400
gadget called an

1415
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:31,680
elect treat priced at only 8 pounds ten

1416
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:32,559
each

1417
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:34,960
the firm operated for three years until

1418
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:36,160
closed recently

1419
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,480
and sold 24 000 elect treats

1420
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:42,960
said to cure greater kidney trouble

1421
00:52:47,589 --> 00:52:44,400
childbirth paralysis

1422
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,599
deafness broken bones and heart pains

1423
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:49,839
it turned out to be a battery-operated

1424
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:51,520
device which imparted a

1425
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:54,640
mild electric shock there is

1426
00:53:02,309 --> 00:52:59,280
no end in sight to these frauds

1427
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,319
wow i wonder

1428
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:04,480
no the writer could never have possibly

1429
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,359
imagined that

1430
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:07,760
70 odd years later that would still be

1431
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:09,920
true that's amazing

1432
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:12,240
there is no end in sight to these frauds

1433
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:13,760
because there is no

1434
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:16,079
uniform legislation throughout america's

1435
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:17,520
49 states

1436
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:20,559
banned in one state a racketeer can go

1437
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:21,599
to another

1438
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:24,319
some states have no laws dealing with

1439
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:24,960
the matter

1440
00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:28,800
and an operator can practice openly

1441
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:31,760
no amount of publicity and advice from

1442
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:33,839
responsible medical authorities

1443
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,400
seems to deter people from buying these

1444
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,319
useless machines

1445
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,960
some shady firms spend thousands of

1446
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,960
pounds a year in advertising

1447
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:45,359
using testimonials of people long since

1448
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,160
dead

1449
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:48,640
often their deaths have been caused by

1450
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:50,720
the very gadgets they are supposed to

1451
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:51,839
recommend

1452
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:54,640
the magazine igea official organ of the

1453
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:56,559
american medical association said

1454
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:58,400
recently

1455
00:54:01,430 --> 00:54:00,720
perhaps we ourselves should invent a

1456
00:54:04,549 --> 00:54:01,440
gadget

1457
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:04,559
for curing people's gullibility

1458
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:05,920
and there we'll leave it and i think

1459
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,280
that was one of the most interesting

1460
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:09,119
articles i've stumbled across in

1461
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:11,839
looking through the trove archives

1462
00:54:17,030 --> 00:54:13,839
interesting because it is

1463
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:17,040
as true now as it was

1464
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:25,680
in 1953 quack medical devices made out

1465
00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:28,400
of flashing lights and bits of machines

1466
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:31,839
promising lots of different cures

1467
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:35,280
and delivering ultimately nothing

1468
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:36,799
and we only have to look to recent

1469
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:39,839
reports of the so-called biocharger

1470
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:42,000
flashing light cure all machine promoted

1471
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:43,040
by

1472
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:46,079
as we say former celebrity chef pete

1473
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,359
evans

1474
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:49,440
so there we are some more interesting

1475
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:50,559
results

1476
00:54:55,390 --> 00:54:53,440
from our search through the archives at

1477
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:55,400
trove

1478
00:55:01,510 --> 00:55:00,319
you might wish to spend an interesting

1479
00:55:05,830 --> 00:55:01,520
couple of hours yourself

1480
00:55:17,910 --> 00:55:05,840
trawling through those archives

1481
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:27,589
[Music]

1482
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:29,109
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1483
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,640
zone and thank you to those people who

1484
00:55:35,150 --> 00:55:32,240
continue to support the show

1485
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,160
at patreon paypal by visiting

1486
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:37,520
skepticzone.tv and clicking the link

1487
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:39,520
and thank you to those people who are

1488
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:40,880
looking through

1489
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,559
my collection of photography at the

1490
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:44,000
bottom of that page

1491
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:46,240
and if you feel like purchasing one of

1492
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:47,680
my digital prints

1493
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,920
that money goes also directly to helping

1494
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,599
the skeptic's own podcast

1495
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,280
and thank you to brian dunning and steve

1496
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,200
roberts for taking out time

1497
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:57,280
a few days ago to talk to maynard in

1498
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,480
fact the whole

1499
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,559
session lasted about three times longer

1500
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,720
than what you hear but those three were

1501
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:04,400
clowning around so much and having so

1502
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:05,839
much fun it was

1503
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:07,920
it was pretty hard to chop that down to

1504
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,040
something

1505
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:12,240
i could use on the show now this tuesday

1506
00:56:15,510 --> 00:56:13,920
night here in australia

1507
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:15,520
you can see me give a talk at the

1508
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,280
canberra skeptics online

1509
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:19,119
all about the great australian psychic

1510
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,720
prediction project

1511
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:23,760
just visit canberraskeptics.org

1512
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,720
for details and that project's going

1513
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:28,640
very well at the moment in fact we've

1514
00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:31,839
cracked the big 300 barrier in other

1515
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,160
words we have less than 300 predictions

1516
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,079
to go through mark and score

1517
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,760
although i might be weeding out a few

1518
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:39,920
here and there taking a closer look to

1519
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:40,720
see

1520
00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:44,160
if we can put some aside because we have

1521
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:47,599
well over 3 000 catalogued

1522
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:49,920
already which i think in anybody's book

1523
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:51,200
would be

1524
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:54,400
a decent number to uh

1525
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,640
to publish and by that i mean publish

1526
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:58,640
the analysis the results

1527
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:00,799
nevertheless we'll plow one for a few

1528
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:02,160
more weeks i think

1529
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:05,680
and in regards to that i notice

1530
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:10,000
that the latest edition of the

1531
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:13,119
psychics directory has come out with

1532
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:16,079
an article about why predictions are

1533
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:17,760
wrong

1534
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,480
i better give this a good solid read and

1535
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,559
it was this very publication the

1536
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,559
psychics directory way back which

1537
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,640
prompted me to start this whole project

1538
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:28,400
because they used to publish their

1539
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,680
yearly

1540
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:31,119
predictions what's coming up for the

1541
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:32,799
year ahead which i would mark at the

1542
00:57:36,309 --> 00:57:34,640
time which are incorporated into this

1543
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:36,319
huge project

1544
00:57:42,789 --> 00:57:41,200
and their hit rate was not spectacular

1545
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:42,799
but i better give this article a read

1546
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,440
because one of the paragraphs here

1547
00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:48,160
is headed channeled message from

1548
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,940
nostradamus for 2021.

1549
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:53,040
[Music]

1550
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:55,520
on that thought this is richard saunders

1551
00:58:02,549 --> 00:57:56,720
signing off

1552
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,309
you've been listening to the skeptic

1553
00:58:08,990 --> 00:58:05,839
zone podcast

1554
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:09,000
please visit our website at

1555
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:10,400
www.skepticzone.tv

1556
00:58:15,430 --> 00:58:13,440
for show notes contacts and to access

1557
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:15,440
the back catalog of episodes

1558
00:58:21,030 --> 00:58:18,960
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1559
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:21,040
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1560
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:24,480
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1561
00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:28,000
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1562
00:58:32,630 --> 00:58:29,440
support the skeptic zone

1563
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:32,640
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1564
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:33,440
podcast

1565
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:36,319
is an independent production the views

1566
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:38,079
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1567
00:58:40,549 --> 00:58:38,559
zone

1568
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,559
are not necessarily those of australian

1569
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:41,760
skeptics or

1570
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:58,950
well it's it's um well it's good to see

1571
00:59:03,750 --> 00:58:59,760
you

1572
00:59:05,190 --> 00:59:03,760
haven't been on the project for a while

1573
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:05,200
and before

1574
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:07,440
and and i know adrian has to go at some

1575
00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:08,640
stage or other

1576
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:10,319
so before we get stuck back into the

1577
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:11,599
predictions and we're talking about

1578
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,280
sophie monk at the moment

1579
00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:16,319
anyway folks i've got the regular uh

1580
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,760
prediction project group

1581
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:19,200
together at the moment and i thought it

1582
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,799
would be a good opportunity and susan

1583
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,480
gobeck's not here which is a pity but

1584
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,480
why don't we do the dice game

1585
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:25,920
we'll do the dye skate look at this it's

1586
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:28,160
a nice green one

1587
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:30,880
look at that we're not going to use the

1588
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:32,319
susan dice which since she's not here

1589
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:33,760
that would really irk her if it came up

1590
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,950
it's a little difficult to toss around

1591
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:40,799
that dice that diet

1592
00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:44,160
anyway so everybody it's out of 10

1593
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:48,240
let me hear your predictions eight

1594
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:51,680
seven four four i'll

1595
00:59:55,109 --> 00:59:53,680
represent susan i'll go with five all

1596
00:59:58,630 --> 00:59:55,119
right michelle

1597
01:00:01,750 --> 00:59:58,640
eight eight here yep here it comes

1598
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:01,760
the first roll is four

1599
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:04,799
i always do four see damn susan

1600
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,280
adrian got that one okay next one and i

1601
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:09,599
both got that

1602
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:11,839
you're psychic yeah next one what do you

1603
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:23,349
here it comes four

1604
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:27,599
yes there we are holding it up

1605
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:31,520
okay last one

1606
01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:38,710
five five two two lots of fives come in

1607
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:40,960
here it comes

1608
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:43,599
it fell on the floor actually it's just

1609
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:44,720
by the cat

1610
01:00:51,349 --> 01:00:47,839
um hang on

1611
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:51,359
do we do we counted them i don't know

1612
01:00:54,799 --> 01:00:58,309
okay okay

1613
01:01:01,829 --> 01:01:00,150
i wish i could just pick it up and show

1614
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:01,839
you without touching it

1615
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:06,160
because it is indeed

1616
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,640
four wow

1617
01:01:13,829 --> 01:01:12,240
all right and i never make this up

1618
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,839
because it's always random and always

1619
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,040
fun

1620
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:18,000
folks today's winning number i've been

1621
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:19,040
on the paranormal

1622
01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:22,720
thing too long now four

1623
01:01:26,470 --> 01:01:25,119
four four shall we do one more you're

1624
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,480
gonna be very unlucky

1625
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:28,319
yes i think so one last one here it

1626
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,079
comes

1627
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:33,119
well you know what i'm going to get ten

1628
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:36,960
ten four what the hell four

1629
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:38,880
nine nine says michelle all right here

1630
01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:40,020
we go

1631
01:01:43,829 --> 01:01:41,760
[Applause]

1632
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:43,839
i don't believe it no it's not four it's

1633
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,589
well okay today's winning numbers are

1634
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:50,720
four four four

1635
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,829
can you see

1636
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:01,750
you'll have to remove the silence i'll

1637
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:03,280
remove the silence